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Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - for review
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:51:19 -0800
Message-ID: <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E013D2AD0@onstor-exch02.onstor.net>
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Thread-Topic: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - for review
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References: <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E0222879B@onstor-exch02.onstor.net> <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E013D2A9F@onstor-exch02.onstor.net> <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E02228EFB@onstor-exch02.onstor.net>
From: "Paul Hammer" <paul.hammer@onstor.com>
To: "Narayan Venkat" <narayan.venkat@onstor.com>,
	"Jonathan Goldick" <jonathan.goldick@onstor.com>,
	"Shamsudeen Jeseem" <jeseem@onstor.com>,
	"dl-Design Review" <dl-designreview@onstor.com>

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Thanks for the clarification, agree with the testing requirement. I =
think there should be no distinction between Cheetah and Bobcat, both =
have to be supported moving forward.

________________________________

From: Narayan Venkat
Sent: Mon 1/22/2007 5:54 PM
To: Paul Hammer; Jonathan Goldick; Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review
Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP =
connections - for review



Paul,=20

=20

You are correct.  We do not need to strictly enforce a hard limit per =
model type.  We should test and support a defined limit per model.  If =
we increase the num of connections, won't we get the cheetahs as well?

=20

Thanks.

=20

Narayan Venkat=20
Vice President, Product Management=20
ONStor, Inc.=20
Tel: (408) 963-2404=20
Cell: (408) 221-4297.=20

________________________________

From: Paul Hammer=20
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:15 AM
To: Jonathan Goldick; Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan =
Venkat
Subject: RE: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP =
connections - for review

=20

Cheetah is supported but we have not defined the number of connections =
in the MRD for this chaissis type. Jonathan is correct that the ECR is =
from Toshiba and they are an all Cheetah enviorment (I believe).

=20

It was unclear to me why we need the cli commands for limitining the =
number of connections, when/why would a customer chosse use this =
command?

=20

Want us to be in sync on this; the number of connections is not the max, =
it is the tested/supported limit, there is no enforced maximum by =
chassis type, thus you should be able to attempt the same number of =
connections on a 2220 as a 2280. This is how I understood the requirment =
and what we discussed when we reviewed this requirement in the mRD =
review. If I am correct then there is no hard limit of tcp connections. =
Narayan please clarify this point, thanks..=20

=20

________________________________

From: Jonathan Goldick
Sent: Sat 1/20/2007 5:25 PM
To: Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan Venkat
Subject: RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - =
for review

1.      Update the copyright to 2007.  Jay made a new template somewhere =
with all this stuff handled.

2.      In section 1, there is a typo in the MRD link, you have an extra =
space in front of "Delorean MRD-PRD-REV1-7.xls"

3.      In section 4, is Cheetah really not required?  I only ask =
because the MRD mentions Nissho by name and their customers have =
Cheetah(s).  Narayan, please comment.

4.      In section 4, is CLUSDB_REC_TYPE_CORE_DUMP a typo?  I'm missing =
why we would put this under core dump but perhaps this relates to the =
comment in section 7 about avoiding a migration; it just seems confusing =
so I thought I'd ask.  Anyways, is it really required that we make this =
configurable?  Perhaps it's acceptable to just detect the model number =
and set the value?  If we could make this hard-wired per model number =
then we could cut out a number of the tasks and make this an easier =
project and test effort.  Narayan, please comment.

5.      Can we make section 7.1 its own major section since testing is =
not really a sub-chapter of Migration Strategy?

6.      In section 7.1, can we add a test where we send some load, even =
if it's low, across all the connections?  We need to know if the number =
of Ops we can service changes dramatically if the load is spread across =
a lot of connections versus our normal tests with very few connections.

7.      In section 7.1, we probably should add a statement that we are =
not able to make sure that this many connections will work properly with =
LinkAggregation set up.  While inn practice I would expect customers to =
use something to spread such a huge load around, we just don't have the =
infrastructure to simulate that number of clients in a way that =
exercises LinkAggregation.  This is probably more of a test about =
whether the switches actually function properly anyways.

8.      Once you get all of this working in a networking sense we need =
to determine whether it works in practice with so many CIFS or NFS =
connections.  If we could handle 1000 CIFS logons with Kerberos in 10 =
seconds(making this number up for discussion purposes) then 32K CIFS =
connections is about 5 minutes and makes sense, but is 128K really =
achievable and across how much time would we have to spread the initial =
connects to avoid overloading the auth-agent?  There is a similar issue =
for NFS mounts with non-trivial export options (NIS netgroups).  While =
what you are proposing looks pretty complete from a networking (NCPU) =
layer, I think we need more on the CIFS/NFS/Auth-Agent layer changes =
that might be required to make such a large number of connections =
actually usable.


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<HTML dir=3Dltr><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Functional Spec : Increase the number =
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<DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText784 dir=3Dltr>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>Thanks =
for the clarification, agree with the testing requirement. I think there =
should be no distinction between Cheetah and Bobcat, both have to be =
supported moving forward.<BR>=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A=
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Narayan Venkat<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Mon 1/22/2007 5:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Paul Hammer; Jonathan Goldick; =
Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: RE: =
Functional Spec : Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review<BR></FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<DIV class=3DSection1>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Paul, =
</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You are =
correct.&nbsp; We do not need to strictly enforce a hard limit per model =
type. &nbsp;We should test and support a defined limit per model.&nbsp; =
If we increase the num of connections, won&#8217;t we get the cheetahs =
as well?</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Narayan Venkat</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Vice President, Product =
Management</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ONStor, =
Inc.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tel: (408) =
963-2404</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cell: (408) =
221-4297.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A=
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Paul Hammer <BR><B><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 21, 2007 =
11:15 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Jonathan =
Goldick; Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan Venkat<BR><B><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: RE: Functional Spec =
: Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A=
<DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText78711>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cheetah is =
supported but we have not defined the number of connections in the MRD =
for this chaissis type. Jonathan is correct that the ECR is from Toshiba =
and they are an all Cheetah enviorment (I =
believe).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It was unclear to me why =
we need the cli commands for limitining the number of connections, =
when/why would a customer&nbsp;chosse use this =
command?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Want us to be in sync on =
this; the number of connections is not the max, it is the =
tested/supported limit, there is no enforced maximum by chassis type, =
thus you should be able to attempt the same number of connections on a =
2220 as a 2280. This is how I understood the requirment and what we =
discussed when we reviewed this requirement in the mRD review. If I am =
correct then there is no hard limit of tcp connections. Narayan please =
clarify this point, thanks.. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A=
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>=0A=
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Jonathan =
Goldick<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sat =
1/20/2007 5:25 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
Shamsudeen Jeseem; dl-Design Review; Narayan Venkat<BR><B><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Functional Spec : =
Increase the number of TCP connections - for =
review</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">1.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Update the copyright to 2007.&nbsp; Jay made =
a new template somewhere with all this stuff handled.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">2.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In section 1, there is a typo in the MRD =
link, you have an extra space in front of &#8220;Delorean =
MRD-PRD-REV1-7.xls&#8221;</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">3.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In section 4, is Cheetah really not =
required?&nbsp; I only ask because the MRD mentions Nissho by name and =
their customers have Cheetah(s).&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dred size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Narayan, please =
comment.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">4.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In section 4, is</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">CLUSDB_REC_TYPE_CORE_DUMP a typo?&nbsp; I'm =
missing why we would put this under core dump but perhaps this relates =
to the comment in section 7 about avoiding a migration; it just seems =
confusing so I thought I&#8217;d ask.&nbsp; Anyways, is it really =
required that we make this configurable?&nbsp; Perhaps it&#8217;s =
acceptable to just detect the model number and set the value?&nbsp; If =
we could make this hard-wired per model number then we could cut out a =
number of the tasks and make this an easier project and test =
effort.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dred =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Courier New'">Narayan, please comment.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">5.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Can we make section 7.1 its own major =
section since testing is not really a sub-chapter of Migration =
Strategy?</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">6.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In section 7.1, can we add a test where we =
send some load, even if it&#8217;s low, across all the =
connections?&nbsp; We need to know if the number of Ops we can service =
changes dramatically if the load is spread</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">across a lot of connections versus our =
normal tests with very few connections.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">7.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In section 7.1, we probably should add a =
statement that we are not able to make sure that this many connections =
will work properly with LinkAggregation set up.&nbsp; While inn practice =
I would expect customers to use something to spread such a huge load =
around, we just don&#8217;t have the infrastructure to simulate that =
number of clients in a way that exercises LinkAggregation.&nbsp; This is =
probably more of a test about whether the switches actually function =
properly anyways.</SPAN></FONT></P>=0A=
<P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">8.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT> <FONT =
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Once you get all of this working in a =
networking sense we need to determine whether it works in practice with =
so many CIFS or NFS connections.&nbsp; If we could handle 1000 CIFS =
logons with Kerberos in 10 seconds(making this number up for discussion =
purposes) then 32K CIFS connections is about 5 minutes and makes sense, =
but is 128K really achievable and across how much time would we have to =
spread the initial connects to avoid overloading the auth-agent?&nbsp; =
There is a similar issue for NFS mounts with non-trivial export options =
(NIS netgroups).&nbsp; While what you are proposing looks pretty =
complete from a networking (NCPU) layer, I think we need more on the =
CIFS/NFS/Auth-Agent layer changes that might be required to make such a =
large number of connections actually =
usable.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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